Vampire Secrecy

[Alexandrea]

I agree absolutely.

[Azraeth]

It was, for a long time, actually easier to enforce secrecy than to break it, per this list.

For the majority of the game, the city alert level also decreased a little bit every day (but that stopped happening after the fade fracture chapter).

The discussion about what can be done to impact secrecy has been brought up before here.

The city alert level also didn't abruptly escalate, but has been getting steadily worse for about 5-6 months (If I'm remembering my timeline correctly).

[Roderic]

Right, so about a year ago-year and a half ago, the gradual decrease stopped, if I'm remembering correctly?

PVP/Skirmish/wte you wanna call it was capped about 2ish months ago? What was it then? Bad? I'm not saying, by any means that this is an argument for or against, which I'm sure most people will assume, I'm just saying that when it was easier to enforce, it was a pretty good level, right? Then about a year/two years ago, it became not so great, when all the things that were available to uphold it went bye, bye.

If david had said this was never going to happen, I'm just curious as to why all the things that made it possible to back that train of thought were pretty much abolished/not brought back/re-vamped (no-pun intended) or something to offest things?

-shrugs-

[Azraeth]

Right, so about a year ago-year and a half ago, the gradual decrease stopped, if I'm remembering correctly?

Yep - as of July 21, 2015

PVP/Skirmish/wte you wanna call it was capped about 2ish months ago?

That happened in September of 2015, per this post. Other than increasing the cap to 4 hitters, I don't believe there have been any other major changes to PVP, so that would have been about 10 months ago.

David has yet to change the PVP system with the updates he had in mind, so until that happens, the skirmish cap is still in use.

Then about a year/two years ago, it became not so great, when all the things that were available to uphold it went bye, bye.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with that >.<

There are still (as listed in my previous post), numerous ways to impact the city alert level, which could have (and according to Doc player) were still viable and being used.

Even if you were to completely remove PVP from the table, there were still more methods in play to reduce the city alert level than increase it. However PVP wasn't completely removed from the table, and people still easily could have used it, just in a different capacity.

For example, collaborative roleplay and grid PVP could have substantially helped, and there is even a good (fairly recent) example of someone who was on the violation list who volunteered to write with people about it here.

I also can't speak for David or what he's said in the past, but the chapters are meant to majorly impact the storyline for Path. The fact that so many of them have had starkly anti-secrecy results kind of forced the storyline in the direction it's taken. Ultimately, the players (collectively) chose for the story to turn out the way it has, both from chapter consequences and the way the city alert level has been managed in the past half (or so) year.

[Alexandrea]

Although there many be many ways to decrease the city alert, none are as easy as it is to increase it and in example; most violations are done by mistake. Few do them intentionally, imo.

I think the argument discussion is irrelevant however. At this point I'm pretty sure it's all over and we're just waiting for the plus size lady to sing as it were.

I also do want to add one thought, however. And yes, I was anti-secrecy at one point on Alex so I take responsibility for the part I played in the chapters before she dumped her rose coloured glasses.

But the one chapter with the fractures that gave the free level up was like filling up a cookie jar and putting it in reach of 5 year olds with a note that said 'don't touch'.

[Roderic]

Although there many be many ways to decrease the city alert, none are as easy as it is to increase it and in example; most violations are done by mistake. Few do them intentionally, imo.
.

Pretty much this. If I get spotted feeding at lvl 2, it increases the alert, right? How many paladins or npc's do I have to kill to decrease what I've done? I mean, I know lita, my poor little lita can feed in sec 2, get spotted, move to another lvl 2, get spotted...she can get spotted 4 times and with the alert as it is, seems easy to do just about anything even in lvl 2 and raise the alert?

So say that happens 4 times (And I'm sure genuine newbs are being spotted a lot), in a lvl 2, sure it's not reportable, but it still raises the alert. My characters kill/stab things every day, all day and it don't seem to make much difference to me? I got idk 9-10 charries, with 1 being spotted, who are busting a hump and have been to stabby/shoot things and it doesn't seem like they can offset those 1-4 spotted feedings?

IDK, I'm not a math wiz and never will claim to be, but I am interested in the algorithmic behind it...say 1 spotted feeding=15 npc's need to be killed or wte. So at 4, that means mine need to kill, collectively (as an example) 60 npc's a day? prob not happening.

[Velveteen]

The only NPC killing that actually reduced the alert level was zombies and mooncalfs and that was taken away ...was it when the crow was ousted? or some other chapter. I cant remember. >.<

Edit" Yeah ok, I confused the alert level in general with getting off the violation list/lowering alert level combination. Don't mind me.

[Alexandrea]

Not at all. I find the whole business pretty bloody confusing myself. <3

[Roderic]

Well, idk seems the NPC listing is kinda....idk stacked against a lot of vampires/players.

Rogue Necromancers -newbies can't kill this? Where are these? Raids only?
Ancient Sorcerers -Again, same concern as above.
Ancient Tizheruks-look above
Alpha Fadebeasts-look above...where is this? Even exist anymore?
Fadebeasts-okay, so not too hard to kill anymore, but hard to find.
Paladin Elders-Again, specific raids I think?
Feral Vampires-this one is cool.
Agents-yeah, easy to kill...hard to find still
Paladin Berserkers-again...where? Raids?
Vampires (NPCs)-yeah I can kill some at lvl 20, prob could at lvl 15 so cool! And easily findable
All Lionellis-easily findable, hard to kill for newbs who make mistakes.

There in lies my issue. Some are in raids only that don't spawn like they used to. Is this due to team raids or hacking raids or? IDK.
How can a newbie correct their error(s)?

[Azraeth]

We're sort of getting a little bit off track here (not a bad thing, mind you), but I'm beginning to feel like the answers I can give are going to get repetitive.

As an overarching answer: The main reason secrecy began to fail was the result of player choices during chapters. By selecting anti-secrecy options, people essentially said that (on a large scale), they didn't want or didn't care about secrecy.

But the one chapter with the fractures that gave the free level up was like filling up a cookie jar and putting it in reach of 5 year olds with a note that said 'don't touch'.

That's sort of the point, I think. Do you choose what you think is good for the community or what you think is good for your character? I saw that chapter (bear in mind, I wasn't storyteller back then), as a way to test just how devoted people were to the idea of the masquerade and the results sort of speak for themselves.

There in lies my issue. Some are in raids only that don't spawn like they used to. Is this due to team raids or hacking raids or? IDK.

That's due to the human raid spawn. I actually had my human character sitting in a raid for like a week towards the end of last month (because he'd already won one), and he killed that raid as soon as the month flipped over. Then a new human raid popped up on the 6th, and that one has been ongoing this entire time.

Basically:

07.06.16 You hear whispered rumours from your relic. A new raid is available somewhere in the city.

06.18.16 You hear whispered rumours from your relic. A new raid is available somewhere in the city.

06.12.16 You hear whispered rumours from your relic. A new raid is available somewhere in the city.

Basically the one on the 12th, he won. Then the one on the 18th spawned. Had to wait out the end of the month to win that one. Then the one on the 6th popped.

Human raids are what's keeping vampire raids from spawning frequently. I honestly wish the system would change.

How can a newbie correct their error(s)?

Killing 100000 NPCs wouldn't remove someone from the violation list anyway, so there isn't really a way for them to 'correct their error(s)'. However, if they're statted for hacking, they can do evidence hacks. Or kill feral vamps if they're statted for combat. Or pay the oracle to track down random events if they are statted for business, etc. There are a ton of ways (already listed) to impact the city alert level.

And this would be the topic I feel is getting repetitive. The information is available, and has been for months. If it was the top priority of characters to enforce secrecy, there were and have been avenues of use, they just haven't been employed on the scale necessary to keep the city alert in check.