Gunsmithing

[Zoey Jane]

You created a new weapon called Tyrion with an APQ of 7, 6, 9. You also gained 26 experience points.

No spaces or anything like that. I posted it in bugs, too.

[Phoenix]

Weapons will never sell the way you expect them to. Why would I want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on something with the potential to break? I wouldn't. I spent 45k on Nix's unbreakable sword way back when. 110k on her unbreakable gun. Never have I needed to replace either. I may swap out for something with a bit more punch for a boss fight or to attack a high level character, but overall I see no point in spending what I'd spend on a relic on something that can be broken.

Only solution to that would be to not have made unbreakable weapons in the first place, but that's not something you can take back, since you've given them out as prizes.

[Mkvenner]

If you want to be making 11, 11, 9 weapons at level 16 then yeah. Level 16s shouldn't really be able to make insanely good weapons right away. It's still possible to earn money from it if you don't have 12+ in mechanics or metalworking though, as you could improve parts you find laying around and sell them on. Is it possible to construct a great gun or sword from step A to Z with only average stats in weapon crafting? I'm not certain. I'm hoping feedback in this area will help us fine tune it.

That's essentially my point <.< It's something that's only viable at a high(ish) level. I mean, I am in no way suggesting that everyone should be able to make amazing things immediately 'cause that'd be nuts, but currently it's another thing that to be half decent at you need to be a high level to do. Which like I say, makes a certain amount of sense, but with the time it takes to level to that place (which I have absolutely no issue with as an RPG veteran) it does kinda put a crimp in things, especially as you will probably need to put points elsewhere so that you're able to level up to that point >.>

Yeah you have a fair point. I believe my thinking was that factory made guns are optimized so that all their parts work in unison, but yeah. I've adjusted the point loss figures so that on average, a mediocre weapon crafter is only going to be losing 1 or 2 points on breaking down a weapon, and might even lose no points at all. A great crafter will find themselves gaining a point on each component when broken down 25% of the time, too.

And there was much rejoicing

I'll be able to comment more on that after I've had a few days to test it with Hellequin. I've already tested it extensively with Mooncalf, and was able to make a 13, 12, 9 weapon after wasting about 300,000 at the shops. But that's still roughly the 4th best weapon in the game, for only $300,000. Right now Hellequin is in line for making an 11, 12, 9 weapon after wasting only about 60k at the shops. This isn't even taking into account the possibility that I could have him collect weapon parts, or even randomly generated weapons; these figures are from store bought weapons only.

Yeah, I figured that when parts become random finds and things it'll get better. And given the time it'll take (without restats) to get to where it's viable, 300k is basically not really that much, but even so...

Only solution to that would be to not have made unbreakable weapons in the first place, but that's not something you can take back, since you've given them out as prizes.

I'd be fine with being totally unable to craft unbreakable weapons. Having them as prizes instead makes the prize better, surely?

[Mooncalf]

You created a new weapon called Tyrion with an APQ of 7, 6, 9. You also gained 26 experience points.

No spaces or anything like that. I posted it in bugs, too.

Ahh I see what happened. It's set to type pistol instead of handgun. I'll fix the coding and then your item.

[Mooncalf]

Only solution to that would be to not have made unbreakable weapons in the first place, but that's not something you can take back, since you've given them out as prizes.

I'm betting that once people start making 16, 16, 9 items, the old unbreakables will be less useful.

[Phoenix]

The likelihood of being able to make a 16/16/9 is so unbelievably low, just based on stats, that I don't think 16/16/9 weapons will ever be commonplace enough to replace a good old unbreakable. I still wouldn't use something with Q9 outside of a boss fight.

It's the equivalent of my Prada purse - fabulous, looks amazing, but only for special occasions because I'm ttly not ruining that with everyday use

[Doc]

I was going to re-stat Doc for this; because this suits his personality, not to be a merchant - just for his own needs. But reading this entire thread, makes me think this will be a dedicated weapons crafter. No hunting; no BnE, no PVP, because it seems like you need dedicated amounts in MULTIPLE areas.. to merely break even.

But thank you to all you selfless players that did it first.. saving me the grief.

I have seen no PROs at all for this skill. I have seen some "Hopeful/Optimistic/maybe it could happen PROs. But no concrete PRO.

Con 1 - It eats energy for no real EXP gain, even when you're successful

Con 2 - the idea of selling crafted weapons for relic prices is, frankly, laughable as it stands

Con 3 - if you were using 14, 14, 14 parts, you'd be crafting a weapon with between 9, 9, 8 and 14, 15, 9 - That is Horrible Odds. Con.

Con 4 - I should probably mention that you can't craft unbreakable weapons just yet; you'll need enchanting to do that.

Con 5 - Plus, don't forget, if you have to increase a weapon 3 times to get it up to 11, and then the break chance is like 65%, you've already been lucky to get it up to 11 in the first place.

Con 6 - I've been playing with it last night and this morning, and I got quality 11 and 12 parts. I broke like 10 parts to get those, but I did get them, and from merely shop-bought items. - Broke 10. Meaning you had to buy 10 guns from the shop at 1500.00 (the cheapest) for a cost of 15,000 before you got "Parts" - that you still have to craft.. that has the high rate of breaking of the dice rolls against you.

Con 7 - The percentage of break chance increases based on a formula... ...Then a random number between 1 and 100 is rolled, and if the number is less than the break chance number, the part breaks. - Too random. I know metal. That grates on me from a knowledge level. Because if I break it. I can fix it. I can grind it, I can solder it, or weld it and build it back up grind it again, if need be. Any metalworker can do that. Might not be pretty.. but we can make it work. To have that high a breakage it just irks me. Even if an end mill breaks.. we regrind those puppies.. they are not waste until they have been reground to nubs. No offence.

Con 8 - As for the hit to weapon stats when you finish it, it's not massive if your stats are high. Say I was crafting a sword, and my strength was 20, my skill was 25 and my mechanics was 13, at worst I'd be losing a point on each area, and at best I'd be gaining 1 point on 1 or 2 areas. It takes the average, checks the weapon type you're making, and then adds or decreases from the base stat average of the parts used. - For those levels and you still lose points?

Con 9 - Question: Does a Ring of Crafter's Instinct help with this at all?

No and I definitely need to change the description of that now to indicate it's only for crafting traps and gadgets. There will be relics that do similar things in the future, though.

Con 10 - You might have a 75% chance to succeed on the first, a 70% on the second, 65% on the third, and so on... but the probability that you'll succeed on all three in a row is .75 * .70 * .65 = .34125 or 34.125%. When you're talking about five upgrades -- each needing to work -- you're talking about probabilities in the 11% range. - waste of time and energy.

Con 11 - If you broke down three 9, 9, 8 weapons and got, let's say, three 8 quality parts (which would be very unlucky with max stats). You'd be able to improve those 8 quality parts to 13 max, and turn that into something like a 12, 13, 9 APQ weapon. How is that not an improvement? Even if you improved each part only once, you're still making a weapon that's 9,9,9 which is an improvement. - IF they Don't Break. What are the odds that you could improve them ALL to 13? Practically Nil. working with only 3 parts.. The odds you get them all three to 13? Highly Doubtful. See Cons 5 & 10 above.

[Cliff Worthington]

You're thinking for a Soloist, A lot of people are in factions and stuff, so why wouldn't a faction have a dedicated weapon crafter?

I love it how it is right now. It's not being handed to us on a silver platter. I mean, I've been playing this game for quite some time. I would LOVE for everything to be handed to me on a silver platter, but in all reality, it's a game, not everything should be easy.

[Doc]

You're thinking for a Soloist, A lot of people are in factions and stuff, so why wouldn't a faction have a dedicated weapon crafter?

Yes I said that in my post.

But also - there are no PROs. Even the PRO's that David said.. are also countermanded by earlier comments David himself said.

[Cliff Worthington]

Making cool and interesting weapons to give to new players? Enchanting them later? May not seem it now, give it some time. Though I agree with the EXp, could be upped a bit. Let Beta end and new players come into the game. Right now, it's a small community of veteran players to the game, things aren't going to sell high or be "Cool" to us. We've been there, done that.