Gunsmithing

[Phoenix]

So... I just took a look at Nix's inventory. She has a bunch of decent guns (7/7/7 - 9/9/8). If, with the absolute best parts and great stats, you're going to be getting something like a 9/9/8, that's not an improvement. If you can't build unbreakable weapons, that's not an improvement either.

Why would I break down a decent gun in order to A) break the parts while improving or, if she somehow manages NOT to break the parts, B) waste that much energy for no EXP to get a gun that's likely the same or marginally better than the decent weapons she had in the first place?

I don't see the point or utility of this skill the way it is (based on what people are reporting and what you just said).

[Mooncalf]

So... I just took a look at Nix's inventory. She has a bunch of decent guns (7/7/7 - 9/9/8). If, with the absolute best parts and great stats, you're going to be getting something like a 9/9/8, that's not an improvement. If you can't build unbreakable weapons, that's not an improvement either.

Why would I break down a decent gun in order to A) break the parts while improving or, if she somehow manages NOT to break the parts, B) waste that much energy for no EXP to get a gun that's likely the same or marginally better than the decent weapons she had in the first place?

I don't see the point or utility of this skill the way it is (based on what people are reporting and what you just said).

If you broke down three 9, 9, 8 weapons and got, let's say, three 8 quality parts (which would be very unlucky with max stats). You'd be able to improve those 8 quality parts to 13 max, and turn that into something like a 12, 13, 9 APQ weapon. How is that not an improvement? Even if you improved each part only once, you're still making a weapon that's 9,9,9 which is an improvement.

[Mkvenner]

if you have to increase a weapon 3 times to get it up to 11, and then the break chance is like 65%, you've already been lucky to get it up to 11 in the first place. The 65% break chance is for that roll alone.

Dude, I wish I only had to improve it three times to get to 11 I've been disassembling guns and getting components an average of four points lower than the original stats, and then making something that's a couple of points lower still <.< I mean, I get that Sev's stats aren't amazing as far as crafting goes 'cause she's a hacker first and foremost and crafting is a secondary deal for her, but even with that being kept in mind the hit the items are taking is pretty intense. For example, I broke down a decent Accurized Rifle last night (I think it was 9/8/9?) and got parts that were no higher than a 6, then I made a gun that was 4/5/4 from it. Like I say, her stats aren't amazing in regards to crafting, but they're not useless either and that's a substantial hit to take >.>

Say I was crafting a sword, and my strength was 20, my skill was 25 and my mechanics was 13, at worst I'd be losing a point on each area, and at best I'd be gaining 1 point on 1 or 2 areas. It takes the average, checks the weapon type you're making, and then adds or decreases from the base stat average of the parts used.

So basically, you need to be at least level 16 and to have only put stats into the relevant places to be any good at this <.<

I do have one question though - firearms are built to be disassembled for ease of cleaning and so forth. They're supposed to come apart, essentially, without getting damaged. I get that you'd break them improving them, but I'm not understanding the logic behind them losing so many points on disassembly considering that.

If you broke down three 9, 9, 8 weapons and got, let's say, three 8 quality parts (which would be very unlucky with max stats). You'd be able to improve those 8 quality parts to 13 max, and turn that into something like a 12, 13, 9 APQ weapon. How is that not an improvement? Even if you improved each part only once, you're still making a weapon that's 9,9,9 which is an improvement.

Yeah, but what are the chances of someone actually being able to do that? >.> Both you and I have already mentioned that the chance to break is kinda nuts and is out to get you <.<

Granted, once components begin to appear on the grid and stuff this will all probably be considerably better (assuming that there's a decent range in quality and so on), but as it stands breaking down weapons for components really isn't the best option, or even a good one unless you have maxed stats in all relevant areas. Which, in a way, does make sense, but...

[Cliff Worthington]

Don't forget parts showing up at Auction either >.>

[Mkvenner]

Also that <.<

[Phoenix]

So... I just took a look at Nix's inventory. She has a bunch of decent guns (7/7/7 - 9/9/8). If, with the absolute best parts and great stats, you're going to be getting something like a 9/9/8, that's not an improvement. If you can't build unbreakable weapons, that's not an improvement either.

Why would I break down a decent gun in order to A) break the parts while improving or, if she somehow manages NOT to break the parts, B) waste that much energy for no EXP to get a gun that's likely the same or marginally better than the decent weapons she had in the first place?

I don't see the point or utility of this skill the way it is (based on what people are reporting and what you just said).

If you broke down three 9, 9, 8 weapons and got, let's say, three 8 quality parts (which would be very unlucky with max stats). You'd be able to improve those 8 quality parts to 13 max, and turn that into something like a 12, 13, 9 APQ weapon. How is that not an improvement? Even if you improved each part only once, you're still making a weapon that's 9,9,9 which is an improvement.

That's if you don't break the parts you're trying to improve. BIG if. The EXP gain is nil and the increase in quality isn't to unbreakable status, so the weapon will break/degrade eventually. When it degrades, you need another 2 good weapons to break down + your weapon that you already crafted, just to make back what you already made, but broke because it wasn't awesome. The energy cost to benefit ratio isn't worth it.

As far as I'm concerned, a weapon of less than Q10 is virtually useless - Nix occasionally uses her 13/12/8 master blade, but I'm so scared to break it/degrade it, I never use it. With enchanting, I'll try to make it unbreakable.

[Mooncalf]

So basically, you need to be at least level 16 and to have only put stats into the relevant places to be any good at this <.<

If you want to be making 11, 11, 9 weapons at level 16 then yeah. Level 16s shouldn't really be able to make insanely good weapons right away. It's still possible to earn money from it if you don't have 12+ in mechanics or metalworking though, as you could improve parts you find laying around and sell them on. Is it possible to construct a great gun or sword from step A to Z with only average stats in weapon crafting? I'm not certain. I'm hoping feedback in this area will help us fine tune it.

I do have one question though - firearms are built to be disassembled for ease of cleaning and so forth. They're supposed to come apart, essentially, without getting damaged. I get that you'd break them improving them, but I'm not understanding the logic behind them losing so many points on disassembly considering that.

Yeah you have a fair point. I believe my thinking was that factory made guns are optimized so that all their parts work in unison, but yeah. I've adjusted the point loss figures so that on average, a mediocre weapon crafter is only going to be losing 1 or 2 points on breaking down a weapon, and might even lose no points at all. A great crafter will find themselves gaining a point on each component when broken down 25% of the time, too.

Yeah, but what are the chances of someone actually being able to do that? >.> Both you and I have already mentioned that the chance to break is kinda nuts and is out to get you <.<

I'll be able to comment more on that after I've had a few days to test it with Hellequin. I've already tested it extensively with Mooncalf, and was able to make a 13, 12, 9 weapon after wasting about 300,000 at the shops. But that's still roughly the 4th best weapon in the game, for only $300,000. Right now Hellequin is in line for making an 11, 12, 9 weapon after wasting only about 60k at the shops. This isn't even taking into account the possibility that I could have him collect weapon parts, or even randomly generated weapons; these figures are from store bought weapons only.

[Mooncalf]

That's if you don't break the parts you're trying to improve. BIG if.

That's where risk and reward comes in. If it costs you 10 days of looking for weapons and using exp to craft a 13, 13, 9 weapon, then you price it appropriately (considering it'd be one of the best weapons in the game). Or you keep it and laugh at people. I'm not going to make it easy for anyone, even after I've tweaked it. Making the best weapons in the game SHOULD be a challenge.

As far as I'm concerned, a weapon of less than Q10 is virtually useless - Nix occasionally uses her 13/12/8 master blade, but I'm so scared to break it/degrade it, I never use it. With enchanting, I'll try to make it unbreakable.

Weapon crafters should see it as a plus. More broken weapons means more custom for them. It also means more in-game money sinks.

[Zoey Jane]

All this is great, but when I made Zoey's first gun it didn't show up in her inventory at all >.>

[Mooncalf]

All this is great, but when I made Zoey's first gun it didn't show up in her inventory at all >.>

Do you remember the stats and the name? It could be a name issue.