Fade Fragments.

[Mkvenner]

After a year, you wouldn't have most of the powers in the game. Besides, it's called "mastery" for a reason.

That's why the number I quoted was three years, and I also understand that it's a mastery path. Clue's in the title. The actual point I was making, though, is that if you can get the powers from three or four of the other paths before you master your own starting path, that doesn't make much sense. A quick look at the power leaderboard will show you that there are nine characters with at least 50 powers, which, by my count, is three paths and three bridges. That's half the available powers in the game. Stephanie Wylde has 81 powers. 81.

As for making money, if you are doing it right you can perform nearly any task in the game and earn 5-10k a day from it. Even with the conservative 5k (which Hellequin has always destroyed on a daily basis, when I can be bothered to move him), you're looking at a little over half a year to earn your first million. Maybe a year, if it takes you a while to get your first skill to 15.

... Yeah, no. I can spend all day killing ferals and mooncalfs (literally all day) and barely break 2k. B&Es make slightly more, and hacking a little more still due to the value of the files but I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone's supposed to make anywhere near that much doing rituals, considering they have to buy most of the ingredients. Rituals lose you money, they don't make it, unless there are people willing to pay you to do them - which given the lack of any sort of response to my ritualist's ad, there aren't that many of.

The only time you'll get close to that amount is if you get lucky and get one of the rare item drops from an NPC you kill - and they're rare for a reason. And even then, the prices they sell for are variable.

The older characters earn 10k a day when they can be bothered to try. That's 3.65 million a year. Considering these older characters will likely trade and lend and donate to the newer ones, 1 million isn't as much as some people might think.

Which is fantastic for the older characters, of which there are a fair few. But my question about balance is still legitimate, and will only be made more so once the game comes out of beta and is flooded with new players, and therefore new characters who can't afford to buy anything because the old guard have jacked up the prices of all the items due to the simple fact that they have more money to spend.

[Mooncalf]

The actual point I was making, though, is that if you can get the powers from three or four of the other paths before you master your own starting path, that doesn't make much sense. A quick look at the power leaderboard will show you that there are nine characters with at least 50 powers, which, by my count, is three paths and three bridges. That's half the available powers in the game. Stephanie Wylde has 81 powers. 81.

Yeah I knew what you were saying, but I was saying that you'll be able to get your mastery path open before 1 year is up, from starting as a newbie. Of course some of the existing players have nearly all the powers (at at least level 1), because mastery isn't made yet.

... Yeah, no. I can spend all day killing ferals and mooncalfs (literally all day) and barely break 2k. B&Es make slightly more, and hacking a little more still due to the value of the files but I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone's supposed to make anywhere near that much doing rituals, considering they have to buy most of the ingredients. Rituals lose you money, they don't make it, unless there are people willing to pay you to do them - which given the lack of any sort of response to my ritualist's ad, there aren't that many of.

The only time you'll get close to that amount is if you get lucky and get one of the rare item drops from an NPC you kill - and they're rare for a reason. And even then, the prices they sell for are variable.

Yeah I was basing ritual profit gain off of the idea that people might want to pay you to do rituals for them. If there aren't yet enough players for that, then I stand corrected on the rituals front. Perhaps I can easily fix this by adding a ritual which tells you where a certain type of loot has been spawned in the city.

But as for killing mooncalfs and ferals, they don't give as much money as some other NPCs do, unless you pick up amazing swords on the ground (which is a better way of earning money than killing NPCs). There are many enemies out there that will net you 5k in loot every day, if you use the auction system on top of selling the common stuff at the shops.

[Mooncalf]

I just want to point out it isnt about the amount of time you have been playing, it is all about the amount of points you have in business. I will agree however that there is a dichotomy in the player base.

Well, let me put it this way: I move Hellequin so rarely, that the number of days I have moved him probably amounts to just 1 year, total. In that time, I've earned from collecting and selling spawned swords, B&E, crafting and selling traps, hacking, fishing, and businesses (a few restats were involved, naturally). All of which earned him 5-10k per day.

I'm not sure what some people are doing wrong, but it's not only possible to earn 5k a day, it's also very easy. Even if you've only been moving your character for 3-6 months.

[Phoenix]

I don't agree with that. Nix doesn't make 5k/day doing anything unless she gets a magical 3k hack. She makes money by selling relics, but little miss raid monster is the exception there, not the rule.

[Mooncalf]

I don't agree with that. Nix doesn't make 5k/day doing anything unless she gets a magical 3k hack. She makes money by selling relics, but little miss raid monster is the exception there, not the rule.

Phoenix is more of a fighter, correct? Fighting earns the most exp, but the least money, especially if you're going for pure exp gains. Though raid enemies drop loot that you could totally sell at auction to make 5k a day without breaking a sweat.

I'm speaking from experience from lots of different skills so I know for a fact that it is possible, and there are quite a few people who play who have had the same experience.

[Phoenix]

Nix also hacks, crafts and rituals(15, 13, 14 respectively), so I'm still not agreeing.

[Mooncalf]

Nix also hacks, crafts and rituals(15, 13, 14 respectively), so I'm still not agreeing.

Then you're doing something wrong, because many characters make 10k+ per day (which they have stated, and is true looking at the database). There was a point when Helly was crafting and hacking that I'd be unlucky NOT to earn 10k a day.

[Cristiana]

How are we doing it wrong?

[Mkvenner]

Yeah I knew what you were saying, but I was saying that you'll be able to get your mastery path open before 1 year is up, from starting as a newbie.

And I'm saying that that's fairly unlikely. My hacker, the character that earns the most, makes at best 4k a day. At best, and that's happened maybe twice in the last couple of months. It's taken her 18 months to get to that point, and she's statted to be good at one thing, despite her lower than average level. Once again, I understand completely that these items are supposed to be rare given what they will be doing, and as such their price will be higher than normal, but currently 250k is a long way out of my price range, on any character, let alone a million. I very much doubt that I'm alone in this, and the differences in what is affordable for some and not for others will only become more pronounced as time goes on and as we gain new players.

I'm not saying that everything should be affordable by everyone, either, because that would be the other end of the scale. I am saying, however, that there should be more balance in prices, achieving a happy medium.

I'm sorry if this is coming off as bitchy or nitpicky, it's really not meant in that spirit, but I do have a serious concern about how many new players we'll keep when the game comes out of beta with the way things are set up at the moment, and that would be a real shame given that this place, even with what I see as the inherent imbalance present, is still better than the other games like this I have played in the last decade.

[Mooncalf]

Yeah I knew what you were saying, but I was saying that you'll be able to get your mastery path open before 1 year is up, from starting as a newbie.

And I'm saying that that's fairly unlikely. My hacker, the character that earns the most, makes at best 4k a day. At best, and that's happened maybe twice in the last couple of months. It's taken her 18 months to get to that point, and she's statted to be good at one thing, despite her lower than average level. Once again, I understand completely that these items are supposed to be rare given what they will be doing, and as such their price will be higher than normal, but currently 250k is a long way out of my price range, on any character, let alone a million. I very much doubt that I'm alone in this, and the differences in what is affordable for some and not for others will only become more pronounced as time goes on and as we gain new players.

I'm not saying that everything should be affordable by everyone, either, because that would be the other end of the scale. I am saying, however, that there should be more balance in prices, achieving a happy medium.

I'm sorry if this is coming off as bitchy or nitpicky, it's really not meant in that spirit, but I do have a serious concern about how many new players we'll keep when the game comes out of beta with the way things are set up at the moment, and that would be a real shame given that this place, even with what I see as the inherent imbalance present, is still better than the other games like this I have played in the last decade.

Nah it's not coming across badly. It's a friendly debate so far.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that a newbie would quit because they can't gain the best powers in the game within the first year of playing. If anything, other MMOs have taught me that the longer it takes to reach the max level, get all the powers, and get the best gear, the longer people stick around.

Plus, if the auto auction price is 1 million, you can be sure that people will find a mastery shard they don't want and sell it for 500-750k at auction to undercut the autoauction. I believe that it will work out quite well, in all respects.