Path of the Vampire forum

Starla wrote:I absolutely agree with you.

People should know what to expect in the terms of realistic consequences that they could be facing for involving themselves in pvp before they jump in and someone who may be a little over-zealous takes things a little too far. As well as laying out that line clearly, so that aggressors will know how deep the rabbit hole goes before they find themselves a splattered mess at the bottom, looking at griefing accusations and not really knowing that they were griefing in the first place.

As an aside, I really appreciate the healthy conversation about PVP.

There were years when I didn't engage in any PVP on Path at all, because it created some pretty unfriendly situations, so I really like that the most recent chapter has given people an opportunity to get back into PVP.

I personally love combat related gameplay, especially live fighting (which Starla player can attest to). I don't generally care if my character is attacked, and depending on who gets hit, they may not retal at all. They may take months to retal. They may not retaliate on grid. Or they might retal immediately.

As long as people aren't abusing it (like attacking my character so often that I can't play the game), I don't really care. I also love to talk about PVP OOC. Nothing wrong with congratulating someone on a good game.

[4] No killing somebody over and over without provocation.

Define Provocation? What is provocation? Provocation means different things to different people.

An attack? Is that the only provocation?
What about In-game Insults? Either in grid or on the forum?

Grief killing (killing somebody multiple times for no new real reason) is frowned upon. You can kill anyone you like in game, for any reason you want (characters are allowed to be douches), but doing it multiple times without a new reason each additional time is against the rules.

So no grief killing, but then you just agreed, characters can be a douche. So it is like you are saying.. Don’t do it..but if your character is a douche.. Well ok.

What is a reason? Perhaps it should say “without provocation.”? -If you define what provocation is.

This means that you cannot kill a character 3 times in a row because they attacked you once. Each kill requires a new provocation for it to be legal.

- I like that we use the same word.. Through out the definition/explanation.

Decent reasons for killing a character would include retaliation for being attacked, in defense of an ally, in response to a serious roleplay insult, bounties, etc. You may kill a character for any other reason (or no reason at all), but doing it more than once in a row without provocation is considered bad form, and only serves to drive people out of the game.

Personally I would get rid of the word “decent”, as that implies, if you have reasons, other than those listed.. They aren’t acceptable. Such as breaking and entering a private abode. The average person may not go that far, but some might. Doc might.

Define a ‘serious roleplay insult’? Why can’t it simply be a roleplay insult?

The one exception to this rule is in the case of faction VS faction warfare. Where peace isn't made, the enemy doesn't have to wait to be hit before hitting back.

This one is big. Does an official statement of war have to be made?

For example, the paladins vs vampires, from the chapter event, is that over? People are still rping it. So an argument could be made that there is currently a state of war. Especially since the paladins are still attacking.

Since there hasn’t been any results released from the chapter (if they have been I missed it) I (personally) consider the chapter still going. And if that is the case.. Are you saying repeated killings are fair?

Doc wrote:Ok.. that was interesting.. But I meant in regard to this game.

We were talking oocly.. and there seems to be several different ideas of what it means for this particular game.

One person was under the impression that once a character died, all past sins were forgiven; even if your character did not kill then.

Another person said.. no.. its once your character kills them.. all past sins are forgiven.

Another person said.. no it's not either of them. Its when an NIA is in place and your character kills them.

So.. there is a general misunderstanding of what it means.. so I wanted clarification.

It depends if you're talking about NIAs, or killing a character over and over.

If the former, then interaction isn't allowed anyway, so any attacks would be breaking that.

If the latter, then it's only if that character has been killed for the same reason. This is because technically a group could say well, member A killed them last time for the same reason, but member B didn't, and then member C didn't. So it's for each reason, rather than all sins being forgiven. So say for example somebody Doc is after gets killed for a different reason, then Doc can still kill them when they return.

And yeah, the faction VS faction thing is official, and it's in the rules I believe? Factions can continually kill one another until peace is declared, or one side surrenders.

Azraeth wrote:What changes might you want for the existing rule?

Game Rules

[4] No killing somebody over and over without provocation

Grief killing (killing somebody multiple times for no new real reason) is frowned upon. You can kill anyone you like in game, for any reason you want (characters are allowed to be douches), but doing it multiple times without a new reason each additional time is against the rules. This means that you cannot kill a character 3 times in a row because they attacked you once. Each kill requires a new provocation for it to be legal.

Decent reasons for killing a character would include retaliation for being attacked, in defense of an ally, in response to a serious roleplay insult, bounties, etc. You may kill a character for any other reason (or no reason at all), but doing it more than once in a row without provocation is considered bad form, and only serves to drive people out of the game.

The one exception to this rule is in the case of faction VS faction warfare. Where peace isn't made, the enemy doesn't have to wait to be hit before hitting back.

You might consider asking specific questions about the rule, not covered by the text already there, and submit it to David so he can make any relevant changes he might want to from there?

Thank you. I was having trouble quoting that because of being on my phone. To me, that is pretty cut and dry, but even as a mod I can see where there can be open ended questions regarding the matter.

I don't know if it's because I have been PVP heavy in the past or not, but still. I also know that new players coming into the game might not be able to understand what's going on, or may potentially feel as if they're being targeted. It also depends on where the views of PVP can come into play, as I can imagine that someone who has had a bad experience with it in the past can paint the situation into a bad light.

As it's been said from others, I myself have no problem with being hit as often within reason. Discussion OOC definitely helps, as well as OOC relations, as Sawyer's player and I have been friends for several years and I know her intentions are harmless. If I were entering the game and had not been introduced to this, I would have a very different opinion and assume she was simply harassing me.

Azraeth wrote:As long as people aren't abusing it (like attacking my character so often that I can't play the game), I don't really care. I also love to talk about PVP OOC. Nothing wrong with congratulating someone on a good game.

This is the best way to put it for me, really. But I do realize that isn't the way for everyone.

Mooncalf wrote:
If the latter, then it's only if that character has been killed for the same reason. This is because technically a group could say well, member A killed them last time for the same reason, but member B didn't, and then member C didn't. So it's for each reason, rather than all sins being forgiven. So say for example somebody Doc is after gets killed for a different reason, then Doc can still kill them when they return.

And yeah, the faction VS faction thing is official, and it's in the rules I believe? Factions can continually kill one another until peace is declared, or one side surrenders.

It is, yes. Azraeth had quoted them.

Doc wants a more specific regarding the rule about griefing, as well as a definition of the term. What specifics do we look: what is a provocation, etc.

edited for awkward statement.

We'd rather not define "provocation" as it would make the rules page so long if we defined every single thing which already have dictionary definitions. The rules shouldn't be so black and white, they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Usually, any provocation will do. It's only when we believe people are grasping at straws to settle some OOC grudge that we'll need to step in.