Path of the Vampire forum

Amalea wrote:Thanks for the offer, Every. Wandered over and tried both a skirmish attack and a power-based one. Safety off in the settings too, just to cover all bases.

Got:

The security in this hospital is too tight for you to attack a human here.

So if the security level is too high to attack, why are hospitalized humans free to attack as seen in the bug report?

Was that with your vampire character?

Grumpykitty wrote:

Amalea wrote:Thanks for the offer, Every. Wandered over and tried both a skirmish attack and a power-based one. Safety off in the settings too, just to cover all bases.

Got:

The security in this hospital is too tight for you to attack a human here.

So if the security level is too high to attack, why are hospitalized humans free to attack as seen in the bug report?

exactly my thoughts there lea.

I'm not sure it's the same thoughts.

Either she used a vampire to attack-which is something david put a stop to ages ago because people were keeping humans in there past the seven days, unlike the whole dying and being put in the s.r. Sure you can still get attacked there, but you can't be stuck/trapped there, like humans could have been ages ago.

Or she used a healthy human (which GrumpyKitty is not a human (so there's a diff there) and the bug is the fact that a healthy anything should not be able to attack an unhealthy human. However, if a vampire OR human is sitting in the hospital with the wounded, threatening them via telepathy or just grid talk, I think they should have the right to defend/attack against the harassment. If might be with a weapon on grid, sure, but in rp...could be a bedpan to the head to get them to stfu.

Also, I voted other.

My suggestion is the healthy characters (humans or vamps) shouldn't even be able to enter the hospital on grid period.
Solve everyone's problems.

Rp, can do it just fine as visiting. No reason for anything healthy to be in there-other than to stir up trouble. Which was exactly what started this entire thing 'debate/discussion.'

Roderic wrote:Also, I voted other.

My suggestion is the healthy characters (humans or vamps) shouldn't even be able to enter the hospital on grid period.
Solve everyone's problems.

Rp, can do it just fine as visiting. No reason for anything healthy to be in there-other than to stir up trouble. Which was exactly what started this entire thing 'debate/discussion.'

I really like that suggestion - so long as wraith guides can't appear in the hospital.

Though, not to complicate things, what if a sorc wants to go in and heal a fallen ally?

I mean I'm ambivalent about the whole thing aside from wanting the game to be fair.

Also, what about people who use ranged powers like curse, mindblock and Dark Theurgy on people in hospitals? I know that Mindblock works on people in the hospitals, but do the others? If so, some temporary immunity (at least until the human's wounds are healed) might be a good idea too.

But otherwise, I agree with the sentiment. Really if it's meant to be a time out type of deal then there shouldn't be a way for hospitalized humans to attack other characters (really that doesn't make sense to me personally because no hospital is going to let an admitted patient carry a weapon), and other characters shouldn't be able to attack/taunt hospitalized humans.

But this is where we all get confused if we look at it from that perspective, Josh. It is why I questioned that Esli could take down Eva in that bttd because he was essentially without any wits at all. Yet David said grid wise it is possible. With that same view a person can carry a weapon into a hospital. Where there is a will there is a way against all practical and reasonable odds. The news sadly is full of just those things happening with patients and staff alike. Case in point a doctor with a massive assault weapon just the other day. I know it can't be simple to try to accomodate all but I like Becca's suggestion. And yes then the long range powers should be looked at for these cases as well.

Balthazar wrote:But this is where we all get confused if we look at it from that perspective, Josh. It is why I questioned that Esli could take down Eva in that bttd because he was essentially without any wits at all. Yet David said grid wise it is possible. With that same view a person can carry a weapon into a hospital. Where there is a will there is a way against all practical and reasonable odds. The news sadly is full of just those things happening with patients and staff alike. Case in point a doctor with a massive assault weapon just the other day. I know it can't be simple to try to accomodate all but I like Becca's suggestion. And yes then the long range powers should be looked at for these cases as well.

My thought process was that, if a person is that wounded that they need to be rushed to the hospital, they're going to be stripped out of their (probably) blood soaked clothes, divested of weapons, put in a hospital gown and probably put on some sort of life support after being patched up.

I could be wrong on my visuals, but my observation was purely from a roleplay standpoint. On the grid, I don't really have any opinion other than that the system (regardless of what it is) should be fair.

Even from an RP perspective, a patient could grab a scalpel or something to slash at an enemy, but none of that changes that a character who is in 'time out' shouldn't be attackable and shouldn't be able to attack, at least in my opinion. Like the way I see it, a person puts up a good fight and gets bested, they have a right to not be messed with for a week - and equally shouldn't be stirring things up, only to be hospitalized and realmed again as soon as they're out.

The whole thing is just messy to me, and leaves the potential for unnecessary drama where there doesn't need to be.

For example - how would that be moderated by David from a grid POV? If I remember correctly, David has said that players aren't allowed to continually kill another person's character without provocation. Well if someone mindblocks someone while their in the hospital, is that considered a new attack or related to the old one?

If that person is attacked for the mindblock, that is apparent provocation, but an argument could be made that it was just a response to grid actions.

So then the players associated with the one who did the mind block have to make the choice to either write their characters as loyal (assuming that would be in character for them), or do they use their OOC judgement and say "Nope, not dealing with this"?

And what if it happens repeatedly? What if the people who are getting repeatedly hospitalized feel targetted?

I'm not saying that has or will happen, but that's just a scenario that comes to me off the top of my head. Messy. Unnecessary. I'd rather just see that particular game mechanic tightened up and avoid the potential cluster...fudge entirely.

Azraeth wrote:

Roderic wrote:Also, I voted other.

My suggestion is the healthy characters (humans or vamps) shouldn't even be able to enter the hospital on grid period.
Solve everyone's problems.

Rp, can do it just fine as visiting. No reason for anything healthy to be in there-other than to stir up trouble. Which was exactly what started this entire thing 'debate/discussion.'

I really like that suggestion - so long as wraith guides can't appear in the hospital.

Though, not to complicate things, what if a sorc wants to go in and heal a fallen ally?

I mean I'm ambivalent about the whole thing aside from wanting the game to be fair.

Also, what about people who use ranged powers like curse, mindblock and Dark Theurgy on people in hospitals? I know that Mindblock works on people in the hospitals, but do the others? If so, some temporary immunity (at least until the human's wounds are healed) might be a good idea too.

But otherwise, I agree with the sentiment. Really if it's meant to be a time out type of deal then there shouldn't be a way for hospitalized humans to attack other characters (really that doesn't make sense to me personally because no hospital is going to let an admitted patient carry a weapon), and other characters shouldn't be able to attack/taunt hospitalized humans.

Wraith guides-I agree. though I've never seen one there, so I don't think they can anyways? Could be wrong...idk
I think if a sorc wants to help a friend..then said friend should leave the hospital for the 2 minutes it takes to heal. Otherwise...well tough bananas. I mean I have characters who would LOVE to help characters while in the s.r. but can't. Just the way the cookie crumbles, i.m.o.

I think mortll said dark theurgy don't work in hospitals...though why should it? It's a vampire attack power...so it shouldn't as no vampires should be in there.

And while Kim is right...hospital attacks do happen-patients or otherwise-I think just opting to make no one able to be in there unless hurt/almost deaded would solve any attacking issues in theory, because the only reason kitty even got attacked in the hospital to begin with was...

1. Constant mindblocks to esli-which as far as we remember kitty wasn't attacked by us...so maybe she was helping an ally-fine, whatever.
2. Her using telepathy to threatening Esli-after he was hospitalized.
3. She parked herself in the hospital to be all threatening or wte to him

I can't feel 'bad' or 'sorry' for someone who sort of set themselves up for an attack and cries foul later about it because they got attacked. You don't see me and Kim crying about our characters who did the SAME thing on grid in world crying about being hospitalized.

Roderic wrote:

Wraith guides-I agree. though I've never seen one there, so I don't think they can anyways? Could be wrong...idk

I've run into one in there in the past - which is why I brought it up, but that was ages ago. It might not still be that way.

I think if a sorc wants to help a friend..then said friend should leave the hospital for the 2 minutes it takes to heal. Otherwise...well tough bananas. I mean I have characters who would LOVE to help characters while in the s.r. but can't. Just the way the cookie crumbles, i.m.o.

Can an injured human leave the hospital? It's been ages since I had one in there, but I thought they were effectively trapped inside. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

And while Kim is right...hospital attacks do happen-patients or otherwise-I think just opting to make no one able to be in there unless hurt/almost deaded would solve any attacking issues in theory, because the only reason kitty even got attacked in the hospital to begin with was...

Actually, the more I think about it, I think immunity and inability to attack is probably just the best option because the hospital is a place where wounds can be healed by humans isn't it? I mean again, it's been a while since I used the mechanics, but any human with any wound can go there and get healed (at the admission desk).

Which means that the hospital would, by necessity, have to be open to humans with any type of wound. This means that a person could just get around the "nobody can get inside" policy by letting themselves get a minor wound. Then go in, and make attacks if they really want to.

Maybe it could tied to the crippling wound? Like 'This character is too weak to either attack or be attacked' type of thing until the cripple wound is gone.

1. Constant mindblocks to esli-which as far as we remember kitty wasn't attacked by us...so maybe she was helping an ally-fine, whatever.
2. Her using telepathy to threatening Esli
3. She parked herself in the hospital to be all threatening or wte to him

I can't feel 'bad' or 'sorry' for someone who sort of set themselves up for an attack and cries foul later about it because they got attacked. You don't see me and Kim crying about our characters who did the SAME thing on grid in world crying about being hospitalized.

That's exactly why I think the entire thing is messy, and should be tightened up.

I don't disagree that Esli was being taunted. I don't disagree with his striking out when taunted.

I just think the entire thing is a situation that doesn't have to happen, and shouldn't happen.

Injured? Yes. Deaded/crippled? No. But again...same stance in the s.r. not everyone can help who they want to help. Just a fact of life.

But, esli was in there before he was 'killed' healing some wounds and left and did more attacking. So yes, you can go in there and heal up and get booted every hour because you're not 'killed/deaded.'

I think the guides used to show up, but I think when it started booting people out hourly, that got changed. Don't quote me tho.

Roderic wrote:Injured? Yes. Deaded/crippled? No. But again...same stance in the s.r. not everyone can help who they want to help. Just a fact of life.

Very true. Though if there is temp-immunity attached to the cripple/deaded wound, then human characters get the best of both worlds, being unable to attack or be attacked, but also being healable by allies.

Which isn't a huge deal to me, I just like the idea of it. If people would rather that not be a thing, then I'm not going to complain. I just see it as somewhat comparable to people fadewalking + drawing spirits for a vampire friend. I know I personally really love doing that with Az, so I thought having the option open to human characters would be a nice (but ultimately not necessary) touch.