Path of the Vampire forum

Cassandra wrote:Are these all Daily Hacks? Because to the best of my knowledge, Tracers don't actually triangulate in Evidence or Sabotage hacks. I'm actually not positive if Silencing the Tracer sets the ping count back to zero - I'm under the impression that it doesn't but flipping a Switcher would. I could be wrong on this.

This last one was on a Sabo hack; I'll see if any of this applies to my daily Random later.

Cassandra wrote:Again, I'm curious if this is a Daily hack, a Sabo, or an Evi. I can trip Tracers all day long in Sabo or Evi and it doesn't give notice of being Triangulated. I believe there's no repurcussions for it in those hacks.

That may be true; my recollection is vague about the two or three times a Tracer has managed to complete its triangulation, so I can't be certain they were or weren't only during Daily Random hacks. I do find it odd that if Tracers would only have a consequence during Daily Randoms, though. Do you mean they're generally useless during other hacks?

Cassandra wrote:Mordechai is right, it doesn't affect the system alert level. Basically, you're actually running into three countermeasure problems in a Daily Hack, and only one of them affects the Alert Level/color:

1) Failing to execute a command successfully, trying to exit a node with an active Sentinel program, or trying to do anything in a node with an active Authentication program (except nullify it) will raise the system alert, from Green, to Yellow, to Orange, and then to Red where you get kicked out.

So basically with Sentinels and Authentications, you've to deal with them before you do anything else, whatever the system alert level is. And failure to do so increases the alert level.

Cassandra wrote:2) The above stuff about Tracers - if you're in a node with an active one for three turns, it will display a message about your position having been Triangulated and the authorities being notified. THAT'S when you've failed it.

This is the bit that's confusing me still:

1. do Tracers only work during certain types of hacks?

2. what constitutes a "ping" from a Tracer, when someone says that it takes 3 pings for a Tracer to find you?

3. does the ping count add up from different Tracers in different nodes?

4. just to be clear, when you say "failed it" you do just mean that the Tracer locates you, and not that the hack is a failure right?

Cassandra wrote:3) Trying to do anything in a node with an active Warrior program while you have a System Alert Level of anything except Green will cause it to "attempt to sever the connection" (or something to that effect). This doesn't affect the System Alert Level at all. If it attempts to sever this connection three times, it'll succeed and you'll get booted out of the system.

This part is a little confusing as well. I've only ever found Warriors in their own nodes, so there are only two options for them: deal with them, or ignore them and move on. If the second choice is made, and the system alert is Yellow, Something Bad happens (I'll admit to not being sure what it is atm). If the first choice is made and failed, I am pretty sure that the System Alert Level does go up by one, however.

Another thing I can confirm: During a Sabo hack, on a Yellow Alert level, I entered and left a node with a Tracer with no apparent ill effects. I also downloaded four files while a Tracer was active during the same hack with no ill effects. I then entered a file node with a Tracer, still at Yellow, and downloaded a file there, with no ill effects as well.

(Thanks for taking the time for this. Tracers are really the most annoying so far in that I can't say when they'll do what it is they do with any certainty. Whereas Sentinels and Authentications are fairly predictable, and so are Warriors.)

Xian wrote:I do find it odd that if Tracers would only have a consequence during Daily Randoms, though. Do you mean they're generally useless during other hacks?

Yeah. In non-Daily hacks (just tested this with an Evi hack, at least), they just display their normal message and never escalate to "You've been triangulated". So they aren't doing anything.

So basically with Sentinels and Authentications, you've to deal with them before you do anything else, whatever the system alert level is. And failure to do so increases the alert level.

Technically, you can do other things in a node with a Sentinel around and it won't raise the Alert Level. For example, you could run Evaluate v6 three times in a node with an active Sentinel, and the Alert Level will stay the same - you just can't leave. If you tried doing the same in an Authentication node, the Alert Level would go up every time you took an action without neutralizing the countermeasure.

This is the bit that's confusing me still:

1. do Tracers only work during certain types of hacks?

2. what constitutes a "ping" from a Tracer, when someone says that it takes 3 pings for a Tracer to find you?

3. does the ping count add up from different Tracers in different nodes?

4. just to be clear, when you say "failed it" you do just mean that the Tracer locates you, and not that the hack is a failure right?

1. See above
3. Yes.
4. Yes, I mean that when you see the message "the authorities have been notified", then you've failed whatever you can fail as far as Tracers go - but you can still succeed at the hack.
2. This is a little confusing to describe because of the Monocle, so bear with me. When you're in a node with a Tracer, this message will appear:

+ Security program "tracer" is present in this node. Your location is being triangulated. Silence "tracer" to end triangulation."

This is notice that the tracer has pinged you. (Except that if you have a Monocle, you ignore this the first time, because the relic negates the first one.) At no point does it actually ever say "ping".

Cassandra wrote:3) Trying to do anything in a node with an active Warrior program while you have a System Alert Level of anything except Green will cause it to "attempt to sever the connection" (or something to that effect). This doesn't affect the System Alert Level at all. If it attempts to sever this connection three times, it'll succeed and you'll get booted out of the system.

This part is a little confusing as well. I've only ever found Warriors in their own nodes, so there are only two options for them: deal with them, or ignore them and move on. If the second choice is made, and the system alert is Yellow, Something Bad happens (I'll admit to not being sure what it is atm). If the first choice is made and failed, I am pretty sure that the System Alert Level does go up by one, however.

Again, technically, you can do other things. Evaluate's the only one I can think of, and there's no good reason for you to want to do anything except deal with the Warrior. If you see a Warrior and it's fighting you, just Shield it. That's all you need to worry about.

Another thing I can confirm: During a Sabo hack, on a Yellow Alert level, I entered and left a node with a Tracer with no apparent ill effects. I also downloaded four files while a Tracer was active during the same hack with no ill effects. I then entered a file node with a Tracer, still at Yellow, and downloaded a file there, with no ill effects as well.

Tracers and Alert Level have nothing to do with each other. Failing a Tracer doesn't raise the Alert Level, and having a high Alert Level doesn't affect whether or not the Tracer will succeed.

(Thanks for taking the time for this. Tracers are really the most annoying so far in that I can't say when they'll do what it is they do with any certainty. Whereas Sentinels and Authentications are fairly predictable, and so are Warriors.)

No worries, it's what I'm here for. They're pretty simple once you get the hang of them, but you bring up a good point - they could definitely be clarified for new players.

Thanks again Cassandra. And thanks as well to Nishaa/Lorde, Mircea, Mora, and Mordechai. (Hope I didn't miss anybody) This really clears up quite a bit - and will also mean I can afford to be less careful/paranoid with Tracers during Sabo's and Evidence hacks.

Also, didn't think about Evaluate V6 in regards to doing other actions in nodes with Sentinels, Authentications and Warriors. Like I think I mentioned, I don't have it yet, so I didn't think about it at all.

And yeah, this stuff should be made clearer for newbies.

Ah, last clarification: would the normal Tracer rules apply for Hacking Raids as well? Haven't done any yet myself, and as I can understand it every single move counts during a Hack Raid. One more move not having to deal with a Tracer could mean the difference.

as cassandra and others have said, triangulate really has no bearing on the hack itself. I have always just ignored it, as the most it would do is draw a cop to the door of where you were hacking, and with Technokinesis, it usually doesnt even do that. That said, back in the day before everyone had computers at home, or had traversed so far on the powers bridges, I used to use it as an on grid attack... everyone did hacks from the cafes back then. I would pop around till i found peep i didnt like in a cafe, then log in and get traced 3-4 hacks, then celerity out. Cops were much more accurate, and jumpy back then, so when they left the cafe, the cops would shoot them 3-4 times ;)

eta in a hacking raid, ignore tracers totally, they are not worth the moves to stop them. just go right thru as if they are not even there.

@mordechai: awesome! XD and brilliant!

Thanks for the confirmation; it does seem that Tracers are so nerfed though. But it does seem that when they do work, they can hurt quite a bit - physically. And given that some Sentinels and Authentications seem to be ICE from Hell and Unbreakable, I personally welcome having some

Makes me wonder if the times I got nailed badly by Hunters was at least in part because of my getting Triangulated. (Triangulate - Higher Notoriety - Attracts Hunters)